<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: God Does Not Exist: Get Over It</title>
	<atom:link href="http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/</link>
	<description>Welcome to the Groomsville Blog: News and Views from Phil &#38; Sue Groom, but mostly from Phil. Enjoy...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:15:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Phil Groom</title>
		<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/#comment-281</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Groom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philgroom.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-281</guid>
		<description>Hi Paul - seems kinda obvious to me: everything that exists depends on something else for its existence: we exist in relationship to the rest of the universe. I could be wrong, of course: that&#039;s simply the conclusion I&#039;ve come to.

As for God: the God of Genesis isn&#039;t a Christian deity anyway, although Christians have tried to claim &#039;him&#039;; but that&#039;s another story. As for God being &quot;an actor, existing and taking action&quot; — I guess it depends on how you read Genesis. I read it as myth and anthropomorphism, as part of humanity&#039;s ongoing wrestling match with reality, an early attempt to make sense of our origins, develop a sense of purpose and offer a polemical thrust against other ancient near eastern mythologies...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Paul &#8211; seems kinda obvious to me: everything that exists depends on something else for its existence: we exist in relationship to the rest of the universe. I could be wrong, of course: that&#8217;s simply the conclusion I&#8217;ve come to.</p>
<p>As for God: the God of Genesis isn&#8217;t a Christian deity anyway, although Christians have tried to claim &#8216;him&#8217;; but that&#8217;s another story. As for God being &#8220;an actor, existing and taking action&#8221; — I guess it depends on how you read Genesis. I read it as myth and anthropomorphism, as part of humanity&#8217;s ongoing wrestling match with reality, an early attempt to make sense of our origins, develop a sense of purpose and offer a polemical thrust against other ancient near eastern mythologies&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul Ireland</title>
		<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Ireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philgroom.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-275</guid>
		<description>Hello there Phil.  I just stumbled on your blog.  Interesting post

&quot;Existence is a characteristic of contingent beings and things&quot;
Where do you get that from?

I&#039;m not particularly sure that applies to a &quot;Christian&quot; God as you seem to indicate, since the Bible starts out with &quot;In the beginning God created...&quot;.  An actor, existing and taking action.  Then the story talks about creation happening.  So an actor outside of creation, not contingent on anything previously created.  If that is the case, how does that follow given your line of reasoning?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello there Phil.  I just stumbled on your blog.  Interesting post</p>
<p>&#8220;Existence is a characteristic of contingent beings and things&#8221;<br />
Where do you get that from?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not particularly sure that applies to a &#8220;Christian&#8221; God as you seem to indicate, since the Bible starts out with &#8220;In the beginning God created&#8230;&#8221;.  An actor, existing and taking action.  Then the story talks about creation happening.  So an actor outside of creation, not contingent on anything previously created.  If that is the case, how does that follow given your line of reasoning?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil Groom</title>
		<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Groom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philgroom.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-241</guid>
		<description>Mike, thanks for such a thoughtful and thought-provoking response. I shall reflect on what you say and offer some further thoughts later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, thanks for such a thoughtful and thought-provoking response. I shall reflect on what you say and offer some further thoughts later.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Smith</title>
		<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philgroom.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-239</guid>
		<description>This really is an admirable piece of Christian apologetics--very interesting, and quite thought-provoking--and I say that as an atheist who, honestly, cannot even comprehend what it would take to ever believe in a god again, or even wanting to.

As a defense of monotheism--and, along with that, a defense of your monotheistic religion of choice--I would say this piece is about as good as such defenses get.

However, I have some problems with it--some reasons why it remains, to me at least, completely unconvincing.

First of all, for all its confident rhetoric, the piece presents no evidence of any sort for its claims.  Everything is a part of God?  Existence is an attribute of God, not the other way around?  God came to Earth as a person?  God came to Earth as Jesus, specifically, not as a figure from some other religion?  

These statements might all sound impressive, when spoken forcefully, but the above piece provides no evidence for any of them, very likely because none of them have any evidence to offer for themselves.  

If everything is a part of God, if to exist means to be a part of a god, shouldn&#039;t you have to provide some evidence for that, other than mere anecdotes or strong feelings of conviction?  How can you trust those anecdotes when so many have proven unfounded?  How you can trust those feelings, when everyone feels something, and not always reliably, and often those feelings are in violent opposition to one another?

If God came to Earth as a person--and not just any person but one man, one time, more than 2,000 years ago--shouldn&#039;t the evidence of his miraculous life extend beyond the few and often contradictory accounts of his most devoted followers?  Why are there no contemporaneous accounts of Jesus during his life from nonbelievers?  Why couldn&#039;t even the churches of his closest disciples agree in their Gospels about whether or not he was born of a virgin?  Why do the more miraculous aspects of Jesus&#039; life seem so derivative when he compared with other myths of that time and earlier times, such as those of Horace and Mythras?  Et cetera!

As for your paragraph addressing why God would have sent his son to Earth--or himself as his son, if you like--that&#039;s all speculation founded on some ultimately nihilistic philosophy--the idea that if there is no God, or no greater matrix of reality or unreality, then all of this life is just worthless, just &quot;remains...fossils...a dream,&quot; and I couldn&#039;t disagree with that more.  Maybe reality without God would be worthless to you, but those of us who focus on experiencing reality unadorned by folkloric or faith-based filigrees think life is wonderful and amazing enough as it is.  

The Universe is so full of mystery at every level, from the quantum to the universal--real mystery that challenges us to discover it, to know it--that there&#039;s really no need to posit the existence of other, unknowable mysteries, mysteries whose roots lie in Bronze Age superstitions, legends, and now-unsupportable beliefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This really is an admirable piece of Christian apologetics&#8211;very interesting, and quite thought-provoking&#8211;and I say that as an atheist who, honestly, cannot even comprehend what it would take to ever believe in a god again, or even wanting to.</p>
<p>As a defense of monotheism&#8211;and, along with that, a defense of your monotheistic religion of choice&#8211;I would say this piece is about as good as such defenses get.</p>
<p>However, I have some problems with it&#8211;some reasons why it remains, to me at least, completely unconvincing.</p>
<p>First of all, for all its confident rhetoric, the piece presents no evidence of any sort for its claims.  Everything is a part of God?  Existence is an attribute of God, not the other way around?  God came to Earth as a person?  God came to Earth as Jesus, specifically, not as a figure from some other religion?  </p>
<p>These statements might all sound impressive, when spoken forcefully, but the above piece provides no evidence for any of them, very likely because none of them have any evidence to offer for themselves.  </p>
<p>If everything is a part of God, if to exist means to be a part of a god, shouldn&#8217;t you have to provide some evidence for that, other than mere anecdotes or strong feelings of conviction?  How can you trust those anecdotes when so many have proven unfounded?  How you can trust those feelings, when everyone feels something, and not always reliably, and often those feelings are in violent opposition to one another?</p>
<p>If God came to Earth as a person&#8211;and not just any person but one man, one time, more than 2,000 years ago&#8211;shouldn&#8217;t the evidence of his miraculous life extend beyond the few and often contradictory accounts of his most devoted followers?  Why are there no contemporaneous accounts of Jesus during his life from nonbelievers?  Why couldn&#8217;t even the churches of his closest disciples agree in their Gospels about whether or not he was born of a virgin?  Why do the more miraculous aspects of Jesus&#8217; life seem so derivative when he compared with other myths of that time and earlier times, such as those of Horace and Mythras?  Et cetera!</p>
<p>As for your paragraph addressing why God would have sent his son to Earth&#8211;or himself as his son, if you like&#8211;that&#8217;s all speculation founded on some ultimately nihilistic philosophy&#8211;the idea that if there is no God, or no greater matrix of reality or unreality, then all of this life is just worthless, just &#8220;remains&#8230;fossils&#8230;a dream,&#8221; and I couldn&#8217;t disagree with that more.  Maybe reality without God would be worthless to you, but those of us who focus on experiencing reality unadorned by folkloric or faith-based filigrees think life is wonderful and amazing enough as it is.  </p>
<p>The Universe is so full of mystery at every level, from the quantum to the universal&#8211;real mystery that challenges us to discover it, to know it&#8211;that there&#8217;s really no need to posit the existence of other, unknowable mysteries, mysteries whose roots lie in Bronze Age superstitions, legends, and now-unsupportable beliefs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Giant Teapots and Other Atheist Myths &#171; Phil&#8217;s Boring Blog</title>
		<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>Giant Teapots and Other Atheist Myths &#171; Phil&#8217;s Boring Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philgroom.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-143</guid>
		<description>[...] What has me puzzled (there&#8217;s only one of me really, despite the voices in my head), though, is why the current crop of atheists are getting themselves so wound up over something that they say doesn&#8217;t exist. I&#8217;m not about to argue the toss on that one, though: as I&#8217;ve said before, God doesn&#8217;t exist: get over it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] What has me puzzled (there&#8217;s only one of me really, despite the voices in my head), though, is why the current crop of atheists are getting themselves so wound up over something that they say doesn&#8217;t exist. I&#8217;m not about to argue the toss on that one, though: as I&#8217;ve said before, God doesn&#8217;t exist: get over it. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Six Ways of Atheism &#171; UKCBD: The Christian Bookshops Blog</title>
		<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>The Six Ways of Atheism &#171; UKCBD: The Christian Bookshops Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philgroom.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-118</guid>
		<description>[...] God does not exist: we do — thank God for that! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] God does not exist: we do — thank God for that! [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil Groom</title>
		<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Groom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philgroom.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-76</guid>
		<description>Thanks Dave. Original? Perhaps in the way I&#039;ve presented it, but owing much to the thought of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eckhartsociety.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Meister Eckhart&lt;/a&gt;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dave. Original? Perhaps in the way I&#8217;ve presented it, but owing much to the thought of <a href="http://www.eckhartsociety.org/" rel="nofollow">Meister Eckhart</a>&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave James</title>
		<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 02:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philgroom.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-75</guid>
		<description>One of the better apologetic pieces I&#039;ve read on the issue of God&#039;s existence. I don&#039;t know if it stands alone as an ontological argument, but it is at the very least part of a good one - and I don&#039;t find that many that are convincing. Is this original? Just curious.

Dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the better apologetic pieces I&#8217;ve read on the issue of God&#8217;s existence. I don&#8217;t know if it stands alone as an ontological argument, but it is at the very least part of a good one &#8211; and I don&#8217;t find that many that are convincing. Is this original? Just curious.</p>
<p>Dave</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rachel Bishop</title>
		<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philgroom.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-58</guid>
		<description>Really enjoyed reading this Phil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really enjoyed reading this Phil.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil Groom</title>
		<link>http://philgroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/god-does-not-exist-get-over-it/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Groom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 05:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philgroom.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-57</guid>
		<description>Not sure that anything I&#039;ve written quite qualifies for the accolade &#039;fantastic&#039; (apart from one or two short stories, unpublished), Melanie, but thanks all the same :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure that anything I&#8217;ve written quite qualifies for the accolade &#8216;fantastic&#8217; (apart from one or two short stories, unpublished), Melanie, but thanks all the same <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
